Boris Pustyntsev: The inaction of the authorities is to blame for the ultra-right's flourishing

Fyodor Gavrilov

"Pchela": You have practical experience in resisting both the left and the right. What differences do you see between them?

Boris Pustyntsev: In 1926 Goebbels wrote to Ernst Thдlmann, leader of the German Communists. There was this passage: "We’re at war with each other, but in fact we have one and the same enemy—international plutocracy." That is, already back then they were ready to see the Communists as their allies. This is important, the differences play a secondary role already. When I was in Moscow I saw two flags fluttering side by side, a red flag and a flag with a stylized swastika—for me that was an incredible sight. But the resemblance of these two ideologies and two regimes has always been noted. I don’t recall to which of the front-line poets these verses belong: "When we finish off the brown plague, we’ll return home, to face our primary, familiar red plague."

"Pchela": How do you assess the current situation in Petersburg?

B.P.: If the national socialists were to come to power in a large regional center such as Petersburg that would mean that in fact they were already in power in Russia. This danger doesn’t exist in Petersburg now, but their goal isn’t to seize power in Petersburg. Currently, their program is to come to power by peaceful means in small centers in the Northwest. They’ve been working on this for a year and a half already [as of late 1996] and we predicted their success in Pskov. Most recently they’ve been working on Novgorod. They have a great deal of money: Yuri Belyaev [see the interview with him in this digest], with the full connivance of the authorities, got his hands on a large number of the security firms, and this brings in a very tidy profit. Moreover, he’s working at dumping prices and the businessmen go to him themselves. When they realize where they’ve ended up, they’re already caught. By the way, it’s already been a year and a half since all talk about coming to power by violent means has ceased. Anyone who talks about violence they declare a provocateur. All their energies are concentrated on coming to power by legal means, through elections. In September of this year [1996], the Moscow neo-nazis recognized the leadership of the Petersburg neo-nazis, since Barkashov discredited himself. That means that Piter has become the capital of Russian Nazism.

"Pchela": Is the renunciation of violent methods a change of tactics or is it assimilation?

B.P.: It’s a change of tactics, of course. These forces are very capable of mimicry, of changing their protective coloration—which they’re always ready to throw off, by the way. Our government’s bargaining that it will succeed in grinding down these people, as it was able to do to a great extent with the Communists, is groundless. These aren’t con men corrupted by privileges, but criminals, ready to kill, and ideologically staunch as well.

"Pchela": Both the ultra-leftists and the ultra-rightists work a great deal with young people. What can the centrist element of our society do to oppose this threat?

B.P.: We are constantly reproached: "You democrats have let the young people slip away from you; the Nazis and Communists are building playing fields, they’re always working with young people in their spare time, they hold lectures, courses for them. Why did you let that happen?" Because you have to be a fanatic to do something not because your heart tells you to do it, but because the party orders you to do it. It’s ridiculous to present such grievances to democrats. Then they say to us, "Come on, bring together the teenagers in the district, find a hall, a boxing coach, read them lectures." But they aren’t going to listen to lectures about human rights. Democrats lack the outlaw romanticism that kids find attractive. One shouldn’t expect the democratic community to outplay the extremists on their own territory. It’s just not possible: this is their home field. The democrats naturally place their hopes on the government. We have the Constitution, laws, and we have the right to expect that these laws are enforced. The inaction of the authorities, and occasional moral support from our local FSB [the Federal Security Service, the agency which succeeded the KGB], for example—that’s the reason for the lush flowering of these forces.