Ivan Blokov (Greenpeace): Petersburg is one of the most
polluted cities
 Alexey Khytrov
"Pchela": What is the ecological
situation nowadays in Russia?
Ivan Blokov: At present what’s
most dangerous—not harmful, but dangerous—is nuclear energy. In
Russia there are twenty-nine reactors at twenty stations, only seven
of which have official permission from the State Atomic Energy
Agency to operate. It’s a real mystery to me how the rest of them
work. Nevertheless, they’re already planning the construction of
about ten more reactors. One of them, incidentally, will be built
right near Petersburg, in the town of Sosnovy Bor. Work has already
started. But a reactor can’t be built there. According to the law
"On the Protection of the Environment," it’s forbidden to build an
atomic power plant on the shores of a body of water having federal
status. I absolutely do not understand how they’re carrying on
construction there, what they’re doing to avoid pollution. The
second major problem is the destruction of the forests. For the
Northwest what is characteristic is the cutting down of old-growth
forests—that is, especially valuable forests. Here we’ve had a
certain amount of success: as a result of our actions the Finnish
companies that were the most active in cutting down the woods were
forced to quit. The next serious problem is chemical pollution.
There are places in Russia now where the concentration of phenol in
underground waters is 17 million times higher than the permissible
norms! One additional problem is Lake Baikal with its uniquely clean
water and the ill-renowned Baikal Cellulose Paper Plant.
"Pchela": How is it possible to
combat all these problems?
- We start solving each
problem by attempting to get results through paperwork. So, for
instance, we brought a lawsuit against the president and had the
decree of his which permitted the import of radioactive fuel into
Russian territory rescinded. That was a precedent and it
worked.
"Pchela": How did you succeed in
putting pressure on them in this way?
- The thing is that our
next move, after the written appeals and the legal procedures don’t
work, is, of course, to go to the press, and if necessary, we carry
out our own actions.
"Pchela": Who takes part in your
actions? Only your employees or do you appeal to anyone who wants to
participate?
- We have about 3,000
supporters in Russia. They help us with information, finances, take
part in events. Only these people take part in actions. There’s a
very important reason for this. All of our actions have a precise
goal, they’re non-violent and absolutely decorous. However, having a
very essential goal, we sometimes consciously break the law. As our
lawyers see it, our right to protect the natural environment allows
us to do this, even though the courts don’t always agree with this.
Therefore all the participants in our actions have to have been
tested in battle more than once.
"Pchela": Could you cite an
example of an action which moved a situation from a standstill?
- The action that took
place last year at the Baikal Cellulose Paper Plant. There we hung
enormous "Save Baikal!" posters on the smokestack of the plant. The
action attracted the attention of journalists; the mayor’s office
agreed completely with our demands, even though the town is built
around the plant. The plant should be declared bankrupt since it has
to pay environmental protection fees about 3,000 times greater than
what it really pays.
"Pchela": Have there been
actions which accomplished nothing apart from attracting the
attention of the press?
- Yes, probably the action
carried out in connection with the dumping of industrial wastes into
the Volga. One company was dumping wastes directly into the river,
but using a firefighting pump—a beautiful one, shiny and
everything—we started pumping the water back onto their property.
There was no immediate effect from this action, but now, in
connection with the worsening economic situation, the amount of
industrial dumping has decreased.
"Pchela": Tell me, who thinks up
Greenpeace actions?
- I’ll refrain from
answering that question. In this connection, you might recall that
good joke about Radio Armenia. Radio Armenia was asked: "Who thinks
up everything?" Radio Armenia answered: "The one who thinks
everything up is in jail!"
"Pchela": What kind of
relationship do you have with the State Committee for Nature?
- A complicated one. It’s
rather relationships with various people, and people come in
different shapes and sizes.
"Pchela": Do you have your own
lobby in the Duma?
- We don’t have a lobby,
but we do work closely with the Ecology Committee.
"Pchela": What, in your opinion,
are Petersburg’s main ecological problems?
- First and foremost, the
industrial zones and people living in the health-protection zones.
At present about 200,000 people in Petersburg are residing in these
zones, that is, where it’s categorically forbidden to live. This is
probably the nastiest problem as far as people are concerned. With
regard to the dumping in the rivers, the biggest problem is that the
sewage system enters the Neva up river from the city, so that a
number of the water collection units are down river, the
southernmost being right next to the cruiser Aurora. That is, the
water in the city is dirty. Unfortunately, no one is seriously
tackling the next problem: the large storage areas for extremely
toxic substances right in the city, such as the Central Waterworks,
where there are several dozen tons of chlorine. There’s a children’s
playground right next to it. Or the storage area for phosgene at the
Pigment factory: it’s actually needed for production, but there’s
simply too much of it there, and if something should happen, it
would have serious consequences for Petersburg. There are a number
of such enterprises in Petersburg.
"Pchela": Could you compare the
ecological situation in Moscow and in Petersburg?
- The water in Moscow is
slightly better, although not by much. That is, if in Moscow it’s on
the very edge of what’s permissible, in Petersburg there are some
serious indicators for chloroform. On the whole, in Petersburg more
pollution is caused by automobiles, whereas in Moscow it’s caused by
factories. It’s hard to compare, because the kinds of pollution are
very different, but the two cities are among the most polluted in
Russia.
"Pchela": Which cities in Russia
are the cleanest?
- Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky—a very clean town, there’s no industry there
as such; Anadyr is a surprisingly clean town. That is, where there’s
industry the cities are polluted and, even though industrial
production in the country is falling, there’s been a very
insignificant decrease in river dumping. Some reports suggest it’s
even increasing.
"Pchela": Greenpeace has been in
Russia for five years already. Has the ecological situation changed
during this time? Has there been any improvement?
- According to some
parameters, yes. The cutting down of forests in Siberia has
diminished. On the whole, the cutting down of forests in European
Russia has fallen off. As far as the rivers are concerned, in the
major cities not one of the rivers has become cleaner and in several
cases, in particular in Petersburg, some rivers have become even
dirtier. The nuclear industry was on a low level and it has remained
there. That is, whereas the number of incidents is decreasing, if
you calculate the number of incidents per unit of energy produced,
the figures didn’t change, and in 1995 they even increased
slightly.
"Pchela": Do I understand
correctly that, although there was no improvement, neither has there
been a total breakdown in the ecological situation in Russia in
recent years?
- No. In terms of
pollution there has been a real breakdown, since given such a
decline in production the amount of dumping should inevitably have
decreased and that didn’t happen! No proportional decrease occurred.
The demand for energy per unit of production remained great and
that’s additional pollution. And finally, this year the system of
environmental protection actually was destroyed: the Ministry of
Environmental Protection was abolished. Now it’s a State Committee
and that’s one rung lower in the hierarchy. The independent health
service disappeared; the corresponding department in the Security
Council was abolished. I would add that the government couldn’t give
a damn about environmental protection laws.
"Pchela": How many Greenpeace
branches are there in Russia?
- Unfortunately, in Russia
there’s only the office in Moscow. We have groups of supporters in
practically all of the Federation’s regions, with the exception of
Chukotka. We have about 100 supporters in Petersburg.
"Pchela": Are there plans to
open a Greenpeace office in Petersburg?
- There’s simply no money
for that. The international organization finances a significant part
of our work, but it isn’t enough. On the other hand, we can’t pass
over cities where the situation is even worse than in
Petersburg.
How to contact Greenpeace in Moscow:
tel.
+095-978-3950
fax: +095-251-9088
e-mail: gpmoscow@glas.apc.org
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